ANC: HM not keen on black players.

November 8, 2012 in Uncategorized

ANC secretary general,  Gwede Mantashe, said that he feels HM is not keen on selecting deserving black players.

Now I do not like politics in sport, but this is South Africa and we have politics in everything.

The thing is I kinda agree with Mr Mantashe. Two players comes to mind immediately JdJ and Mvovo both arguably the best in their positions at the moment, taking injuries into account. But yet two other players get played out of position to keep them out of the starting team. Hougaard a scrumhalf at wing and Taute a fullback at centre. Both of these players have also not set the world a light with their performances in the Rugby Championship(RC).

Then on the bench Schalk Britz and Morne Steyn gets selected ahead of Chiliboy and Jantjies.

OK so one can understand the Britz call, he is an awesome  impact player and Chili was injured a lot this season but if Chili was selected not many would have complained esp because unlike Britz he still plies his trade in SA.

Elton was the incumbent flyhalf after the RC and now gets droped out of the 22 all together for Morne who has struggled all season for form and is deff no impact player or supersub. Strange?

Then if you look back a few months HM selected an injured Jacque Potgieter ahead of Kolisi who at that point had a much better S15. Add to that the constant overlooking of a guy like Gio Aplon and that does makes one wonder. Does Mr Mantashe have a valid poiinnt?

I can still vividly remeber how Elton and Juan stood next to the field warming-up (hopping around and eager to get some game time) when there was about 12 or so mins to go against Aus. The game was already won and they had to stand next to the field until there was only 5-4 mins remaining. Why?

Is it that HM just does not like (rate) certain players and coincidentally they mostly tend to be black/colored OR does HM just not rate deserving black players?

On a personal note: Rugby is under constant pressure to transform and give more opportunities to players of color. Why not embrace it when you have the chance? Especially when these changes will actually strengthen the side.

With all the difficulties SA rugby has keeping politics and the government out of rugby why not use the opportunities to lessen the pressure?

Cheers.

Note: These above mentioned players is but a few examples and does not constitute all the black talent we have in SA.

39 responses to ANC: HM not keen on black players.

  1. A Friend of mine from Ventersdorp said after Superrugby…

    “Dit maak my die moer in dat wanneer ‘n swart speler goed genoeg is en hulle hom nie kies nie, want dant spring die hele ANC weer op die politiek in Rugby bandwagon”

    He was referring to Kolisi. And he has got a good point. Everyone frowns when the government complains about the racial makeup of the team. But he wouldn’t feel sorry for Heyneke, because its his own stupidity.

    I tend to agree with him.

    • Jip HM makes it difficult for himself. If he started JdJ and Mvovo. Benched Chili and Jantjies the ANC would have sung a different song.
      Thing is most people me included thinks this will improve the team.

      • I understand Brits being picked. I really do. I would have picked him myself.

        What concerns me is this outside centre size thing. Taute not being able to defend the 13 channel cost us 2 tries in Soweto. The saddest thing of it all is its not his fault. Its a tricky position to defend, and the guy on the drift can easily beat you. JJ Engelbrecht has the exact same defensive issue when playing at 13. Everyone knew they could take him on the outside with a drift ball.

        After the first miss Francois Hougaardt stopped trusting Taute on th defense, and started to come in if it looked like the player was on Taute’s outside.

        I thnk that was another 2 tries?

        All due to the stupidity of playing a larger player in a position where he does not possess the necessary defensive experience.

        If Brian O’Driscoll was playing on Saturday, and Ireland’s forwards got parity, the Boks would have been chasing the game the whole day.

        Aparently de Jongh hasn’t trained at 13 this whole week. He’s been covering at 12.

  2. How do you explain Zane Kirchener then? He’s a coloured, definitely not the best in his position but HM keeps selecting him.
    I agree with Mvovo and JDJ, they should definitely be in the starting team with Taute at 15. And Jantjies should be on the bench instead of Morne Steyn. Then the “colouration” of the team will already look a lot better, ha ha
    As for Aplon not being there, thats not a colour issue but rather a size issue. H Brussow sits in that same boat, as does a few other smaller players (k daniels?).
    But I definitely wouldn’t put Chilliboy there. He’s good, but not in the top 4 hookers in my opinion.
    In the end, whoever is the best in that respective position should play. Doesn’t matter if they’re all black or all white or all pink.

    • Jip Zane is a bit of an anomaly. But maybe his Bulls jersey helps him out? :)
      Chiliboy is a good player but has been injured and out of form a bit. But you have to reward the players that do not go to EU.
      As for the size thing how do one explain Hougaard on the wing then. He is not big, Mvovo is twice his size. Maybe the blue jersey? :)

  3. I don’t know why anybody bothers about what the ANC says anymore. They care nothing about rugby, and they care nothing about transformation. The process is simple and utterly predictable: 1) Mangaung looms; 2) Mantashe’s faction has their backs to the wall; 3) Mantashe needs to distract attention away from Nkandla & Marikana and score some points with an angry membership; 4) Mantashe needs to play the race card; 5) Rugby is a successful and high-profile “boer” sport, and thus an easy target. Juan is competing with the captain, who is the better choice if fit; Elton did little at test level and faded in the Currie Cup, calm and basic is a better option on wet slippery fields than steppy and swervy, Hougaard is actually a good “multidimensional” wing, Britz has better knowledge of local conditions than Chilli and had a great northern season, and you don’t send all your subs on early in case you run out of subs, as happened to Oz just recently. Juan, Chilli, Mvovo and Elton are all very good players, but the others are perhaps even better. That said, although the govt demands “blackness” over “delivery”, if HM goes black and loses, the Boks will play to empty stadiums, as happened already to Bafana.

    • Well won’t argue over ANC politics.
      But JdJ is a OC and is competing with J Taute a FB for the no 13 jersey. JdJ can cover 12 but he is a 13. He has had a good season and a brilliant end of season and deff did more than Taute did all year long.
      Elton had one bad game the SF against WP. Morne has had one good game the game against the Lions B team.
      Hougaard is a good player but is seriously out of form can’t even make the Bulls starting 15.
      Agree on Britz.

  4. Would it be better then if we had a representative selection panel as in the old days instead of leaving the selection to the coach & maybe one other? Heineke has brought a lot of this criticism on himself as sooo many have already said. What then about using a foreign coach who hopefully will be a political?

    • Well as said below a selection panel gives you a whole lot of different problems.
      A coach should be able to choose who he wants. But he should then at least win 75 – 80 % of his games.

  5. Everyone knows that Hougaard got that x factor, same as Habana ( and even when Habana did not perform for more then two years, he was still in the team), now we want Hougaard out, or rather he is in the team because he is a blue bull??? Taute should be full back not centre, but wow i would have loved to know if he was a Bull what people would have said !!!

    • Ha look we WP supporters like taking digs at Bulls.
      I like Hougaard as a player but Mvovo also has x-factor and is in better form.

  6. yep absolutely on the button

  7. The problem with selection panels is that a committee chooses players based on their own preferences, and the collection doesn’t necessarily gel on the field. Unlike a cricket team, which is a collection of individual specialists, a rugby team is selected as a whole. It must also be selected to play to a specific plan, and the panel of selectors won’t necessarily have the same plan in mind. Lastly, when a team fails the coach alone gets the blame, so the coach needs to have control of the process. Adding a couple of politicians to the process, with their usual self-interest and usual zero-accountability, is total sabotage. It would be equivalent to letting Cheeky Watson pick the team.
    I think the province “fans” should stop whining about the “blue jersey” – its getting stale. This team is excellent in every respect except for Kirchner, who I would drop for virtually anybody else, although my own preference would have been Ludik. If the Province “fans” don’t like it they must just carry on supporting the All Blacks, like they usually do.

    • We WP supporters will stop whining about the “blue jersey” when teams are selected on merit.

      Also liked Ludik pitty HM do not rate him.

  8. Watching the US Election results yesterday as well as the story of how Obama got where he is, racism still playes a huge part in not only South African, but World Politics, which to me is a sad thing. I grew up in a diverse and cultured South Africa and was never part of anything apartheid and neigher were my parents.

    Transformation is only a political tool and has nothing to do with sport which saddens me. Granted there are choices that HM could have made differently, but that is a Rugby thing, not suppose to be a political thing.

  9. I believe the moment you start or lead into anything regarding colour or race, the rest of your argument is invalid. If Gwede is such a passoinate rugby supporter he would refer to players he would like to be chosen as players only and not as a group collective under a colour banner. If you want to group players under anything, it should be their union / franchise or as a springbok, because those transcend all feeble bullshit boundaries like race etc.

  10. nice blog general.. i hate the race card & politics in sport but for me, meyer shows absolutely no evidence that he rate players of color very highly just like he doesnt rate small players very highly. i just want the best players available to play regardless of their skin color & it’s not happening at the moment.

    it saddens me that i’ve lost some of my passsion for the boks, so im very excited that the proteas are playing.

  11. Nice Article!

  12. janjies sucks and is over rated by far …mvovo cant tackle , beast has become lazy , basson groot kop , rhule is Ghanaian.

    Anyway i think Chiliboy is great and i have no issues with any players color as long as they are good they can play… we all humans and we live in the rainbow nation so the doors are open and people must stop using the racist card its becoming old news !!!

    • Well if you take S15 stats into contention then Hougaard is no.6 on the list with 37 missed tackles and Mvovo isn’t on it it goes to 17.
      Beast overplayed, Jantjies is inexperienced but a good player

  13. Well being from the eastern cape where we have supported rugby from when we were born, played from primary and even club rugby and varsity hostel rugby, i am very disappointed by the attitude that heyeneke shows when it comes to black players in the springbok set-up.
    He has consistanly at every turn, when given the choice between a black player and a white player chosen the white player. Transformation has been vilified in the media and rugby circles as Quota, not picking on merit and on and on . It has been hard to argue with these because sometimes the players picked were obviously not at that level. But now we have talented black players who are amoung the best (on form) in their positions in the country (jantjies , Mvovo, juan de jong, siya kolisi ect ). He has not shown any faith in any of them nor has he given them the same chances that he gave to potgiter, marcell coetzee, johan goosen, jaco tuate, hougaad. All these black players named are at the very least on par with their counter parts and some much better. Transformation as some have said about putting in inferior blacks at the expense of talented whites. The excuse has always been that there were no good black players to pick. Here we have extremely talented blacks who have the same experiance and equal talent and the whites were picked. So to me at least its obvious that transformation is not taken seriously. So thats why when the boks play the all blacks you see south africans wearing all black jearseys.

    • Thnx for your reply.
      On the face of it one would have to agree that the above mentioned players has not been treated fairly.
      HM is a strange one, with PdV one always knew who the team was with HM is a real guess.
      I just hope next season when he settles in he starts becoming more consequent and start selecting players on current form.

    • sorry to say khanyisa, but arguing with colour in mind is whats wrong with this country. Why not just argue with merit, maybe then will people listen. I agree all those players he is not choosing deserves to play and are great talents with possibly more to contribute. But what if those players are just not in HM’s gameplan and he doesn’t rate them to fit into what he plans for the team, and not because they are black. Alot of players, black AND white, have been knocking on the door to play for the boks, but havent been chosen… Even in 1995, people wanted Tiaan Strauss above Francois Pienaar in the team, but coach Kitch thought otherwise, and now Pienaar is one of the greats of history and Tiaan left for OZ to play for them and did well on his own. How about Schalk Brits playing the rugby world on fire years ago, and still doing so, but only had a few Bok caps to his name because the coaches (Straeuli, White and PDiv) didnt see him feature. Even greats like Teichman were dropped because Mallet saw more potential in Skinstad. I compare white on white players to show it happens no matter what the circumstance. Then if it happens with white players, it is bound to happen with black players as well. Get it? To go on every time your fav player doesnt get picked and happens to be black, doesnt mean its right to go on about colour and start all sorts of racist war of words. All about gameplan and what the coach sees in practice and what he wants. Yes we may not like it, but thats how it works, and those featuring in important posts like Gwede should just shut it and not criticize while on his public platform meant for politics. Would it be right for Meyer to make his political view known and criticize Gwede and the ANC when he is given his public platform for rugby? I do’t think so. So please pack away the race card and wave your rugby card around a bit. People will respond alot more positive…

  14. well i agree hougaard has been kaka lately as well and people like jean de villiers , zane, morne should not be in boks team…. im curious to see rhule get a run on saturday …. i still say josh strauss should be a bok and maybe we could take zane off put taute at fullback and add whitehead in with de jogn…

  15. Hougaard is 1.80 m tall, which is shorter that Mvovo, but he is the same weight (90kg) and is pretty physical for a small guy. More so than Mvovo. And Hougaard is one of the only players that I’ve thought would be better on the wing, as opposed to his original position at number 9. He’s got potential to be a great Wing. Sadly, this whole issue has been turned into a racial thing (again). There have been many players, such as Deon Fourie; Heinrich Brussow &, until now, Pat lambie, who have been excluded by HM. And I can’t understand how people are up in arms about Chiliboy not being in the squad, when Deon Fourie has won Currie Cup Player of the year. What about him ? Schalk Brits has also done extremely well at Saracens, winning the ‘Players Player of the year’, two years in a row. Brits may have been unlucky to be excluded for the last couple of years. For me, Guthro Steenkamp should be in the starting lineup, and so too should Juan De Jong, though I’m not crazy about him or Taute. JDJ seems to get smashed back at International level, and although he has a great Technique in defense, players still seem to get through him from time to time. Then again, Taute missed 3/5 tackles against NZ. To me, none of them are as good as Jaque Fourie. Kolisi is another huge talent, who should be considered, once he recovers from injury. He’s CRAZY Strong.

  16. The ANC p____ me off. It’s always GIVE GIVE GIVE GIVE!!!! When are they going to learn to bring the word EARN EARN EARN into their vocabulary

  17. Spot on Generaal

    How he avoids picking players of colour who previous coaches would have eaten there left coco-nut for is beyond me!

    Kolisi should have been picked ahead of potgieter, when he was fit. JdJ should be starting as should Mvovo- Kirchener could be phased out slowly for taute over the course of the series.

    That would give us 5 players of coulour in the starting line up with Chilli and Jantjies on the bench.

    There will be times when he has less quality players of coulour to choose from and then because of the pressure he will be picking guys who dont deserve it

  18. Ja I don’t believe its a race thing. It’s more like a disability thing. Meyer’s mental disability.

    De JOngh made his name by killing he opposition with his tackles. He is a GREAT defender and then he can score tries too. His debut vs Wales in a slapdash Bok team proved it. His try against the Sharks in the CC proved it. It’s a poor decision by Meyer and I can understand people playing the race card.

    For some reason some also feel Jantjies should have started and I completely disagree with it. Does that make me racist too?

    If Meyer was racist, would he have been trying to get Mujati a passport while players like WP Nel, Heinke van den Merwe, BJ Botha and even Kevins favorite Brok Harris are available to select?
    No, he wouldn’t have.

    Meyer isn’t racist, He’s just just a bit dumb.

    • Well yeah I am also not convinced HM is a racist.
      But he does like some players and some not.
      Then it does not matter what form or ability the players he likes or dislikes have he will stick to his favorites.

  19. i saw Mujati play in a bok jersey before so why now is he not eligible ?

    • He is not an SA passport holder and thus not eligible to play for the Boks.
      The rule was only amended in 2007 so before that Mujati could play for the Boks.
      Go read MU post on it.

  20. I definitely think Mvovo is better than Hougaard on the wing. Agree with the fact that it could be the Blue jersy there. HM has a liking for Hougaard. I think he would find place for him in the front row just to get him to play…lol… :)
    And also think that Jantjies is a better option by far than Steyn on the bench.
    I totally agree with Lambie getting a shot for a change. he has stood on the side lines for far too long now.
    What is more concerning though, is where are all these players going to fit in when our injured players come back.
    Bismarck, Francois Steyn, Schalk Burger (if he ever comes back) etc.

  21. I agree Gen De La Rey.I’m a patriotic person that loves the Springboks and SA Rugby but it’s becoming suspicious to think that whenever there is 3 players of colour in the starting line up the coach tends to just stop there where we could easily have had 5 in the starting lineup who was there on merit.Imagine what it could do for rugby in this country and even for HM as a coach.Win or Lose the country would have been behind him.He just missed a great chance!

  22. We live in South Africa, unfortunately race will continue to be an issue for a very long time. 20 years of democracy doesn’t automatically remove prejudice, in fact the current politics at play in our society is possibly creating more prejudiced people out there. I agree the boundaries should be feeble and b-s but not in our country and not in our life time…unfortunately.

    Back to rugby – the principle should always be that players are picked on merit. Why can’t HM just be honest enough and say he doesn’t rate JdJ, Jantjies etc… for “xy&z” RUGBY reasons and therefore doesn’t select them? I’d respect that. Instead we have a situation where form players are not selected and it boggles the mind of the collective public because no plausible RUGBY explanation is given as to why certain players are left out?

    We’ll never know what goes through HM’s mind and whether he is racist or not, but he is certainly not doing enough to dispell the notion that he has selection bias.

  23. Well lets get it all out. Sport is adds to nation building. Hm is self centred. I do not feel the same way about the Springboks anymore and do not even feel to watch the game. HM is detsoying what was build up over more than a decade. Lets say the truth he does not like players of colour. White superiority is still t frsh in his mind.

  24. Let me be blunt HM is a DOOS and he is doing harm to rugby.

  25. I do get the impression that HM prefers being a reactionary than a visionary. His whole gameplan stems from that philosophy. Let’s kick and see what they [the opposition] can do. I’ll select the team and will only respond to what will materialize, e.g. being called in and forced to select a quota of players. The sad thing is that the players will know it and play accordingly “in” and not “for” the team. He could have started with four players in the first 15 and Jantjies on the bench and he would have done wonders for unifying a team for the future. Sadly he has only caused a greater degree of unnecessary polarization. Kirchener’s inclusion is not based on colour, but on his philosophy, so it cannot serve as proof of him accommodating players of colour.

  26. Good blog..have to say that HM really missed a chance to win the support of most South Africans..as a supporter I found it strange that Goosen was elevated above Lambie and Jantjies, this after returning from injury and playing 40 mins. Lambie should have been starting when Steyn struggled, but he persisted until Goosen was available.
    The same at the back where Zane was not really at his best, but still being backed. Yes everyone talking about Habana who was kept in team when he struggled, but his work rate during that time made more than up for his poor form, which cannot be said of Steyn, Hougaard or Kirchner.
    HM stated that he sees Taute as a fullback, but what does he do..he really does not trust JdJ to perform for him..His game plan of picking big guys just does not make sense when opposition teams run circles around them cause they are nimble!!
    We really want to see a team that everyone will know was selected on merit, irrespective of colour..Hopefully that will happen one day under HM’s rein…

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