My previous post about Springbok legends apply. That list as indicated was based on a list called 20 all Black Greats published in the New Zealand Herald. The New Zealand Herald’s main criterion was that it should be players that were world beaters and who dominated their eras on the larger world stage as players.
Now being captain of a team –all be it a very successful team- does not make you a world beater as a player.
There is in my opinion a difference between being a legend and a great. A player can be considered a great if he played more than 70 tests for his country. Certainly if he played more than 100 and from that perspective John Smit, Matfield and Percy Montgomery should be called Springbok greats as should players like John Gainsford, Frik du Preez and Jan Ellis who played respectively 33and 38 tests in the non-professional era.
John Smit is also the most capped Springbok captain and from that angle I might agree that he is one of the greats of Springbok rugby.
My list however is called Springbok legends because I don’t think a legend and a great is the same thing. A legend is somebody that lives in the ‘volksmond’. It is a talked about player due to his extraordinary exploits, characteristics or playing style. It is somebody that captured our imagination and/or who changed the way we play/see the game and/or who changed the outcome of a series with some outstanding ability/feat.
Frik du Preez was a legend and a great. Joggie Jansen became a legend due to a couple of tackles during the 1970 All Black series but he was never a world beater.
So if I were to construct a list of 20 Springbok greats my list will look at things like amount of matches played, amount of tries scored and whether the person was a world beater.
My list of 20 Springbok greats will look as follows:
- John Smit – for being the most capped Springbok captain
- Percy Montgomery – for being the first player who played 100 test matches for South Africa and for his world class accurate two-step place kicking; being the springbok that scored the most points for his country.
- Victor Matfield – for never losing a line-out contest in 110 test matches
- Bryan Habana – for having scored the most tries as a springbok
- Danie Craven – for his contributions on and off the field
- Hennie Muller – for being the most successful Springbok captain ever and for the way he redefined No8 play
- Morné du Plessis – for his leadership and success rate as a Springbok captain (86%).
- Chester Williams – for impressing everyone with his ability and decision making
- Ray Mordt – for being the first Springbok that scored three tries in one test against the All Blacks
- Frik du Preez – for being the SA rugby player of the century
- Danie Gerber – for being arguably the best center that ever played the game
- Naas Botha – for his ability to win test matches
- Joost van der Westhuizen – for his work ethic on the field and his ability to score impossible tries
- Bennie Osler – for dominating SA rugby and world rugby from the flyhalf position for longer than a decade.
- John Gainsford – for his competitiveness and longevity as a top class player
- Jan Ellis – for showing that you can be a world beater even if you play for SWA and longevity as top class performer
- Os du Randt – two RWC gold medals; and for coming back after serious injury to settle our scrum problems
- Ruben Kruger – for never taking a backward step
- Gerry Brand – a legend among legends according to Danie Craven
- Boy Louw – Danie Craven: “I don’t believe that South Africa will ever see the likes of Boy Louw again”.
I need more places for players like Phil Mostert, Philip Nel, Henry Honiball, André Venter, Rob Louw, Daan Retief, Johan Claassen, Uli Schmidt, Gerrie Germishuys, Gysie Pienaar and Carel du Plessis. So I am starting to wonder. Should I keep John Smit in just because he was the most capped Springbok captain?
LOL, what a come back!!! Agreed, Legends and Greats are two different things.
Fantastic two articles. Well done. Great to see someone putting his gargantuan rugby knowledge “out there”. Legendary. (Well, almost.)
great post Mclook, your knowledge and love of the game is amazing.
Like I said before I respect John Smit immensely,
but some of the younger rugby fans (including myself at times) forget about the rich and colorful history of Bok rugby…
filled with greats and legends that played in a amateur era where when they had to work a 8 -10 hour day and then go and train with the rest of the provisional teams they played for.
You make a good point, but that does not mean I have to completely agree with you.
In my mind John is a legend. While he was captain, the politics around rugby seemed to take a back seat and that is because of the immense work he did off the field. There wasn’t any huge off or on field scandals, unlike pre-Smit era. His line out throwing and scrumming technique is world class.
That’s my opinion, and I know it does not matter.
Thanks McLook. Nice list. If you must choose an all time Springbok team plus reserves, that will be a difficult one. We have so much to choose from, each one will his own strengths and weaknesses. Uli Smidt jnr was a hell of a hooker, quick and aggressive. The same as Bismarck in the modern era. I was too young to comment on Smidt snr. For me the best two flankers ever was Rob Louw and Andre Venter and with Morne Dup as no 8 and captain, WOW! Who can beat this. Something to ponder on, don’t you think?
Reading through all these posts and comments, different players, different personalities, different conditions, I now believe you cannot compare pre-professional and post professional era players, the game changed too much
Good post, valid points and a well thought out list, I think the list will differ from person to person and you’ll never really get full agreement on that list anyway
Good post, I still don’t know though . . .can we really compare players from this age, where rugby has become a professional sport to decades ago when the game was a whole lot different?
You’re right. Probably 5 or 7 players everyone will agree on like Danie Gerber, Frik du Preez, Victor Matfield, Naas Botha, Hennie Muller but the rest will elicit non-ending debate.
Problem is also that most of us have not seen the oldies play so it’s hard to make a judgement call so we tend to stick with those we’ve seen.
It is difficult. The real greats are the ones that will do well in the modern game or who would have done well in the pre-professional era.
Matfield would have done well any era. Gerber would have revelled in the modern game. If Morné Steyn can make it in the modern game Naas would have to. Frik du Preez started his career as a flank forward and would have been a lot fitter and stronger with modern training methods. He was a flyhalf as a school kid so Frik would have done well in the modern game I think.
See my answer to Sherrif.
No worries mate. John was a great Springbok. He however never really captured my imagination like Mannetjies Roux, Danie Gerber, Gysie Pienaar or Frik du Preez did but I do understand were you’re coming from.
John was a stabilizing factor, a great influence and respected by his oponents and world media as a leader. He was the face of Springbok rugby for 8 years plus and never put a foot wrong. Quite an achievement.
Like your back row combo. I never saw Louis Schmidt but Uli was something special. Loved the way he started smiling when the going got tough.
Best team ever virtually impossible due to the way the game has changed.
True. The next captain will have to be very media savvy and be good at answering and handling the tough issues like transformation etc. One misstep and he’ll get roasted by the international media.
I think it is important that the modern players get ‘schooled’ about the history of Springbok rugby. SA rugby is were it is due to some legendary and really talented as well as dedicated rugby players and administartors.
In order to grow and maintain our oustanding record as a rugby playing nation we need to understand were we come from and who our hero’s were that put us where we are.
A thoroughly enjoyable post,thanks.
As probably the oldest blogger on this site I feel that I am qualified to comment. The only ones on this list that I did not see play were the pre WW2 players and Hennie Muller although he was our hero! The others, too, were often spoken about by the older people when I was young.
Let me say, now that I think you have made a very good list. Some fanatical W.P. suppoters, of which I am one, might argue about the inclusion of Naas Botha. I would disagree with them. Naas Botha was a great flyhalf, as a matter of fact, the best I ever saw. His ability and rugby brain were phenomenal.
Naturally not everybody will agree with you, but that is the name of the game!
John Smit is a legend, not only for being the most capped captain, but also for being the most respected international captain of his era.
Thanks.
Agreed, Vespa. I think we can all agree though that McLook has done a fine job.
I get what you are trying to say McL,so just a small nitpick: Rob Louw = legend and great.
still dont think john deserves to be in the top 3 or even the top 10…. if you want to put a springbok captain in there put francois pienaar he did allot more for sa rugby
plus pienaar has his own Hollywood movie ; )
Fourie Du Preez?
Agree FdP is definitely one of the Springbok greats. Twenty is not enough places. Maybe we should consider stricter criteria?
Hahaha, Gilbert. Good one.
You’ve got it. I left Rob out of the second list only because of the amount of tests he played in comparison with the likes of Jan Ellis, Ruben Kruger.
on and off the field antics? but obviously during his rugby playing carreer
I dunno about the distinction between Legends and Greats. To me, Matfield, if not already, will be a legend someday. We often remember how Frik du preez sprinted from the lineout to score a try, but Matfield has achieved far more than du Preez did, and there are many bok tries, like the chip kick try he did, that will make for talk of “legend” in decades to come. The distinction is there, yes, but I feel your list does include a few legends as well.
To me, Matfield, Joost, Naas, Danie Gerber and Ray Mordt are all legends, with Os also coming very close to it.
Ok, sorry, I only now see you’ve done a seperate post on legends…so, yes, I agree with your view.