Fickle sportsfans and no excuse to party

December 10, 2012 in Uncategorized

I believe myself to be a avid sportsfan, who enjoys more than just my team winning but the contest as a whole…but it seems I am not in the majority in South Africa. Let me explain: yesterday I we went to the final day of the Sevens at the beautiful Nelson Madela stadium. Now I have been to a couple of rugby Tests and some Curry Cup games at the stadium and the atmosphere, especially during the Trinations match in 2011, was amazing. But this was my first IRB Sevens tournament and from the party atmosphere I have seen on TV I was hoping for the same. There sure was a party but, wow, not a very big party at that. I felt the whole event was lost on the friendly city.

IRB Sevens is more than about the host team and its supporters but about the experience of high pace international rugby, combined with some blistering speed and skill… and lately the IPL type dancers or cheerleaders. You dress up in a theme, wear crazy outfits and have fun…and maybe watch a little bit of rugby in between. On a side note, the highlight or lowlight, depending on who’s view you take, was the slightly overweight gentleman in a Borat suit… not pretty and probably scaring for the young girls sitting close by.

I feel that these events are lost on the South African fans and also the administators. The IPL is a great example of getting an awesome atmospher and packed stadiums. In my opinion, packed stadiums make 90% of the atmosphere. The ticket prices are cheap in the IPL and everybody can afford a ticket…and that’s what you want. Especially if you are trying to bring the game to the masses. The unions and government keep talking about transformation and bringing rugby to the previously excluded groups. Then why, if you have such a great opportunity, do they make the tickets so expensive? Main stand R 350 pp and R 150 pp for the opposite side! R20 a beer, R 20 for some slap chips, R 15 for 500ml Coke, etc. Its a very expensive outing. Now according to my ave maths there were about 15 000 people on Sunday at ave spending of about R 250 pp  to R 500 pp works out to about R 3.75 mil to 7.5 mil. Lower the ticket prices by R 100 ave (R 250 and R 100 pp), you almost double your attendance. People will still spend between R 250 to R 500 pp because they stay longer and have more fun. That raises your income to between R 7.5 mil and R 15 mil.

But the way it looked on Sunday, its was not the biggest party to come to PE! Not by a long shot!

What really bugged me even more than the high ticket prices was the fans. Now I am generalising but after the Blitz Boks lost to the All Blacks in the semi-FINAL (because it was more a final than the final, quality-wise) a large group of fans left. Most of the finals were played in front of crowds rivaling first session first day crowds, in other words, not may people. Even the Cup final was played infront of under 50% capacity crowd. It was only the Werstern Cape New Zealand branch (dont get me started on these ‘South Africans’…’brakets’ used becasue they are not really from South Africa, are they?) that made up the biggest part of the crowd…and those few hundred who were there for the party! How can we be so fickle that if we dont make the final we leave? What happened to the whole experience and party vibe and enjoying the spectical? The finals were very entertaining and the Blitz Bokke really showed that they were the second best team of the tournament, not the third best as the final results showed. New Zealand were the better team but only by a wisker, not the scoreline showed in the Cup final vs France. The 3rd-and-4th place game and the Cup final the ABs and Boks broke there opposition and was very one sided games.

I hope that if the IRB Seven does stay in PE the administators incharge of ticket prices will look for long term profits rather than short term profit that would probably be less that it possibly could be. And let there be a party! We can alway use another party…at cheaper prices please!

29 responses to Fickle sportsfans and no excuse to party

  1. I am always amazed and amused at the reactions of Springbok supporters, and so-called sports writers when confronted with ‘Brakets’ who support New Zealand (on this point what is a ‘bracket’, and where is the Werstern Cape?). I have spent many years studying South African sport and society, in which the media plays a major role in terms of forming opinion. I am currently closing off two documentaries on the duplicity of South African society, and I use sport as the yardstick of measurement. We are, by all accounts, and abnormal society, enjoying “NORMAL SPORT IN AN ABNORMAL SOCIETY”.

    Many millions are excluded from participation in sport and general public life, by the very concessions which liberated those who benefitted from apartheid laws and dictates e.g. Naas Botha, Danie Gerber, Kepler Wessels, Gary Player etc. The ‘black’ sports stars, who were not recognized under apartheid, and who now, are subjects of benevolent charity by Naas Botha and the Supersports and News24’s of this world. True recognition eludes.

    In studying and interrogating the issue of specifically All Black support in South Africa, I uncovered a huge sub-culture rooted in tradition, vast knowledge about rugby, stats, rules, player profiles across the board, not just All Black rugby. But what I found to be particularly interesting, was the fact that this support (All Black support) represented the continuation of the SACOS sports struggle so brutally betrayed by Nelson Mandela & his ANC between 1987 and 1992 (the year of so-called unity).

    As has been the case prior to ‘liberation’, the arrogance (matured ignorance) of those who ‘own’ the media platforms, there is a tendency to be dismissive. They laud and applaud the exploits of ex-Bok players abroad, and do not term them unpatriotic. They celebrate the huge flag waving displays of ex-South Africans in Perth (Australia) and Wellington (New Zealand) whenever South African teams play over there, and never term them unpatriotic.

    This is the attitude that serves, feeds and fuels the determination of these All Black supporters – and yes, I too support the All Blacks – to grow the numbers, and grow the passion.

    My All Black documentary is titled: “Absolute Black – All Black Support in Mzansi”

    My sport and politics documentary is called: “Injury Time – The Rise of the 80 Minute Nation” This project has been screened at the University of Queensland, is part of the history curriculum at the University of Otago – it was screened at Canterbury University, Victoria University of Wellington, University of Johannesburg and (ironically) Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University. The impact of this project has been such that it has been formally requested by the 2013 Co-ordinating committee of the International New Zealand Film Festival.

    I will keep you posted.

    • Mark, thank you very much for your comment. Its nice to hear someone else’ story. The blog was not ment to go into this debate but here it is. I understand the AB support during the apartheid era. What I struggle to understand is the new South African: born, educated and now getting more advantages than previously advantaged, still supporting the ABs and not embracing this new country. I would love to read more about your work as it seems to answer much of this (mis)understanding. I met a coloured girl who told me she was from New Zealand, she was not.
      The reason i used the phrasing of Western Cape was to avoid insult, harm or discomfort, but in doing so have anyway. So frankly, i was refering to coloured people. Not black, i wish they would stop putting coloured people in the ‘black’ category, that to me is insulting to coloured people.
      Further more, immigrants are just that, immigrants. There are many South African working abroad because of work opportunities they could not get here. My father and my brother are both cases where they did not fit the criteria.
      Abnormal society devided by the media and those with grudges carried for generations (white, black and coloured) but why cant we just support the experience. That is what my blog was about. And just to clear something up, i am not a sportswriter. I just write a blog every now and then, I also write about wine when i have something interesting to say. I am no wine expert either. Thats wat is so nice about blogs, its just for fun.
      Thanks again for the comment. hope to hear more about your work. it does sound interesting.

    • Interesting word choices. Madiba betrayed brutally the SACOS sports struggle…perhaps that Sports struggle should have followed Madiba’s example? Reading your comment is seems extremely one sided and biased without any understanding shown towards the unity Rugby has created in the country since Madiba portrayed his support, save for the few individuals such as yourself who refuse to move on from the so-called struggle. Why you would compare this to South African’s living abroad and still choosing to support the Springboks is indicative of your total biased viewpoint. They may live in another country, they are still SOuth Africans at heart and still support their team. Nothing unpatriotic about that.

      The major issue Springbok supporters have with you guys is not the fact that you support your little All Black team, its that you stoop so low as to booing and jeering the Springboks. You do that to no other team. And you base that on the race you see on the field, on nothing else. Based on your comments, I don’t think I would bother watching your documentary, as it seems to do nothing more than confirm what I already think of you and your likes.

  2. i have read both your blog & the reply from Mark so ill break my (ill try) response in very short paragraphs.

    1st – In response to the use of NM bay stadium, the 7’s & the vibe & culture, you are right in saying SA rugby has a responsibility to ensure that many if not all can attend. I previously went to George events with great fanfare & enjoyment as the people & the overall event was amazing each year. PE was to be both a culmination & an oppertunity to better what George had, but sadly the administartors do not seem to have the same passion in PE as the people of George seemed to have. It’s not better promoted,its neither seemed more appealing to me, SARU has an obligation to ensure that the event in itself beciomes the spectacle its supposed to be, specially if SA wants to win Godl at the olympics.

    2ndly – your statment on teh previously disadvantaged, when did the y become advantaged & the prev. advantaged not so. If you are talking about the current cultural shift in our country you cant deny the numbers do not lie, the body may seem black but the head is still very white. In sport we have the same situation where the platform for players of color is not equal. Yes, they do not have the same facilities & sports programmes in schools, nor do most parents earn enough to either afford to send their children to those schools or even half of the same tools to reach teh same level. These kids rely more on talent, determination & heart ( not that the white kids lack these) hoping to be seen by a union scout or coach. but lets be honest, this formarly advantaged group, had its advantages & the majority are still reaping the rewards of that advantage, the shift was inevitable but its far from that which the small group would let you believe…numbers do not lie, neither does the obvious.

    3rdly…yes I am a AB supporter, but I do dream of a day where I will see a more rep SA team of teh demographic of our country. No I do not mean more black players alone, but a more equal system where the only difference to each playerr would be composure, heart or determination. The “loyal”always qoute Danie Cravin, who said the best Springbok(if not team in the world) would be a team of white forwards & black/coloured backs…but they ommit the part where he said he believes the springbok should be exclusively for the whites. That mentality remains, they admire the skill, but still feel…” ‘n goeie grote is beter as ‘n uitstekende kleintjie”. Thats the mentality that drives me( I speak only of myself in this intstance) to not care fro that bok, a symbol that was kept as both a way to apease the whites of this country & UNITE US.

    In closing, i will not go into why I prefer the AB’s, or this growing culture of CPT AB support…yes there are very much closed minded rugby supporters in both camps…but the saying that in the years that you have watched rugby in this country, can you honestly say that the field is equal for all players in the system. In that instance do you sincerely believe that the case in all other facets of SA life. The many instances of affirmative action (another tool so utterly misused I must agree) or qoutas( again, misused) has done more harm than good, but its requried as if your honest with whats going on in our country & its sport, the playing fields are far from equal.

    p.s…if you respond & as many other debaters wish to use the PSL ( another messed up org. but for other reasons) I must ask you if you truly watch it. We watch the rugby, therefore we can honestly comment about it, same with our current country, we live in it each day…so please do not use it as a juxtaposition to the Boks, the issues in Bafana is more to do with where you play your soccer in SA(or abroad) then the color of your skin.

    Sorry for the long winded-ness, have a good one

    • Hi Dominic, Thanks for the comments. I feel I have hit a nerve with this AB thing…and with that a whole debate about equality. I’ll try and keep my responses short as i actually have to work (even though it doesnt always look that way).
      On your second point, are you refering to corporate or sport (head and body statement)? It does not really matter with regards to my response, but lets keep it in sport. WP board is almost totally non-white. With regards to players of colour, this is my opinion: it takes two generations to see the top flight teams be more representative. First it has to start with the attitude of the parents, they have to instill national pride in their children. “Boetie, jy moet ‘n Springbok word”. He grows up wanting to become a Springbok. Sitting back and waiting for everything to change…you are as much part of the problem. Parent must be the catylist for change.

      Quotas at junior level (u13) can be understood because those youngsters will now be given a chance to get a scholarship to a better rugby school. I know you said not to mention soccer, and i wouldnt. I’ll refere to cricket and the amazing work guys like Omar Henry and his brother has done in the smaller WC schools and the fruits which are now starting to bare in the senior sides. It takes time.

      Your statement regarding size is not a South African thing. Its how the game has progressed. Gatland, Welsh coach only picks big player and only the most exceptional smaller players make it into the team. Welsh bakeline ave about 1.88cm and 100kg. So your point is mute.

      Your last few comment seem out of the spectrum of sport so i wouldnt comment on that. This is sport we are talking about, not socioeconomic groups and life in general.

  3. I used to take my DAD to the George 7s every year and that was a PARTY. The whole town took in the tournament and “official 7s” parties were arranged at venues all around George. The smaller stadium was packed and the atmosphere spilled over into the whole town. It was great, because you could walk to the ground.

    I miss the George 7s. Ah well…maybe one day the PE 7s will live up to the legacy of George, but I doubt it…the game seems to be lost in the huge stadium.

    • I too hope that PE will live up to the party George had but i dont think it is the size of the stadium that is the problem. Hong Kong is always packed and that is a 40 000 seater. Bigger than PE by 5 000 seats. It might just be lost on the city. There is not much going on here so i dont know why the whole town is not taken in by it. I hope it improves.

  4. The only reason there are these AB supporters is because they hold on the their so-called “struggle”. It’s easy for them to complain about playes of colour not given the opportunities they “deserved” but for every 1 black player that doesn’t get his opportunity, there are 10 whites that are looked over for sports scholarships purely because they are white. Their talents, determination, heart and passion for the game doesn’t even get considered, the pure fact that their skins are white exclude them from the process. Now one can argue it both ways but it remains fact that, besides from favoritism to ones own union, there is favoritism towards certain personalities, certain physical traits, certain styles of play. Now booing and taunting the Springbok players, some of them (especially the 7’s) black and coloured, (with a guy like Cecil Afrika adored by all South African sports lovers) has nothing to do with supporting the All Blacks, and all to do with clinging onto a struggle, without which these supporters lives seem empty. They need a struggle to go on. Their arrogance and hatred towards the Springboks doe snothing to gain them any understanding or sympathey but merely makes me despise them more.

    • Met Uysh, I agree with you. If you want to see change, you have to start with the change. Waiting for more colour in teams does not help. It begins with fathers NOT supporting the ABs and booing the Boks but showing their children to support the Boks.

      • The only guys who see racism in Rugby are this bunch. How many of us are unhappy that Afrika, S’bu Sithole, Kolbe, Botha (yes, he is black), Hendricks, Isbell and Mbovane playes for the sevens team? No one. How many people are saying Paul True is only picking his coloured players because he is a coloured coach and he is racist? No one.

        No, the only ones who are in fact racists are this bunch of NZ supporters who go to the stadiums to do nothing more than taunt and boo the Boks. They even went as far as attacking a SARU official with a bottle over the weekend, in “support” of their AB’s.

        The majority of South Africans couldn’t care less of the entire Boks side was full of blacks. That is the honest truth! We don’t care, we don’t give a flying fuck what the composition of the team is, as long as we perform! That is the only criteria.

        These guys are still living in the apartheid years and obviously have not embraced the freedom they have been given, not to even speak of the freedom to think for themselves and escape from that mentality that their lives are meaningless without a “struggle”.

        SARU this year received the IRB award for developing the game and developing BLACK players.

        Many white players I know of who do not even get considered at the lower Provincial levels, get scooped up by foreigners because of this preference for BLACK players at the Unions.

        But no, keep living in the past and sticking your heads in the sand, AB supporters. Keep believing what the ANC feeds you with their SABC propoganda and turn a blind eye to the reality. After all, your life is meaningless if you don’t fight the “white oppressors.” Laughable…

  5. @Dominic and Mark,
    I must say both very interesting comments.

    I agree players from certain schools do have a lot easier road to WP/Bolland squads than players from other schools. But that goes for white, Black and Coloured if you are not from the big schools you struggle to get discovered. (I agree players of

    I would love to have a more representative rugby teams in South Africa but we also have to be realistic in that the selectors can only select from the rugby playing communities. Thus a truer criteria should a representative team of the rugby playing public of RSA rather than a representative team on the demographics of the country as a whole.
    Yes I would love it if more people in South Africa start playing and supporting rugby as their first choice sport. And agree not enough is done to develop rugby in South Africa.

    I do believe that a person can support any team or country they want. At the moment RSA is still a free and democratic country. (although I fair that is slowly deteriorating) And I can wholly understand why esp. the previously disadvantaged portion of rugby supporters in RSA would support other teams.

    If we truly want to move forward in this country we need to forgive the past wrongs BUT keep on fighting the current wrongs. (like inequality of opportunities)
    I believe by choosing to support another country you are adding to the problem and not solving anything.

    I also agree that people who are immigrating isn’t solving any of RSA problems either.

    (just my opinion)

  6. Hi again

    It seems like we must agree to disagree, thanks for your input Dela Rey. On the 7’s team, True can only pic who is available to him, unless unions release the big guns for the olympics(which I doubt) , he will choose the players that can adapt to his vision & game plan. Those you have mentioned are mostly from trails held, as he has to pretty much start from scratch almost every second year. If you have been to a 7’s training session, you will notice one thing, the skill level of these guys are way beyond the majority of the 15’s. Those players are predominantly of colour but no not all & if you remeber the pre-True era, in many games they were bullied by the Pacific Islanders, he brought in the conditioning & tackle strategy that has greatly helped someone like Gio Aplon.

    In regards to the event i it self, both the PE minicipality, the governing bodies(SARU,the PE rugby union etc) has a responsibility to promote the event, the city & do more as to make it more of a spectacle off the field.

    I blame SA rugby for the issues of development in thsi country, no did not & I still do not expect it to happen over night. The field is not even the juniors making the under age squads do so on merrit not qouta. Met uys, your statement that kids of colour are getting scholarships over 10 whites is invalid for two reasons. The majority of thiose said white kids parents can afford to send those kids to soem of those schools or varcities, the schools & varcities recruit those palyers of colour both due to their own qoutas as well as their demographics as there are little to none in their regions. Thats the same with the unions, see the Blue bulls & Freestate come to the western & eastern cape to recruit their qouta of non white players due to their demographic limitations & if WP & EP allow this than hey thats their problem.

    On the AB, for me I grew up learning as much about them as I did teh boks. My love for them has always been about the rugby played & yes even their selection history is as messed up as ours. I refer to an article sometiem last year regarding the Crusader/Christchurch debacle of only choosing limited (2) & fielding maori players within their team. Why do you think the maori team is there? Like I said the AB support can be as biased & stupid like the rest of the world. they are not unbeatable, not the final England game but the game in NZ against the boks was there for the taking, & we all know it.

    Finally, to conclude my longwinded response…I do not consider myself 100% correct nor do I assume to know everything. I can just tell you that my experience within this country as a person of colour is what I am using to comment as to the issue of both supporting the boks & the socio-economic issues. fore every Kolisi theres a Keegan Daniel, just like theres a Albert for every Nizaam Carr. Admittidly both those players of color would not be where they are without conditioning to compliment their skills. i remeber Conrad jantjes once stating that he didnt care much for conditioning & that took his career back a few years. But again, these are my opinions, if i am wrong I am wrong but there is as much truth in all our responses.

    • I have had the opportunity to spend a day with the 7s team while they were in Stellenbosch, i also watch many session while i studied there but it seems your knowledge of rugby is limited. 7s and 15s are two very different types of rugby, i’d say as much as union and league differ. Therefor the type of player and the skill required is very different. Very few 7s players make it in 15s because of the type of rugby.

      With regards to Tru’s selection prosess, how and where he sources his players it complicated. Players do not have to play for the Blits Boks, very much like international rugby and why Figi struggle to get a consistantly good 15 players on the park, they choose to play club rugby because it is more profitable.
      Now i am sure 7s play well but your career in 7s is short, very few players make it last for a long time. Also only of late (last few year, 4 or 5) has 7s been able to contract their players. Before that players had no job security.
      I too enjoy the ABs and the game they play. They play attractive rugby. The most hardened Bok supporter will agree but when you only support a national side that is not your national side when they play your national side (for our international viewers to understand my point) and boo the players of your national side, that is unpatriotic and part of the problem that leads to devision with in our communities. Your son will grow up to hate the Boks and will never strive to become a Bok. How will we become more demographicly representitive if we as parent dont teach our children national pride in our sports teams.
      I’l give you an example, I think Bafana Bafana suck, they are terrible. I dont like the football they play or the selections they make. BUT if they play any country i support them, even when they get hammered because its my national team.
      I am part of the new South Africa, why dont you join us?

  7. Very interesting comments here – apologies for stirring this debate – you were actually complaining about ticket prices, however….

    Met Uysh is in a lather about living in the past – what then is the heritage debate about regarding holding onto the Springbok? That symbol belongs in the past, yet a very short sighted, inexperienced Mandela decided ‘On His Own’ to retain the Springbok. I suggest that you try to read a book called “Now Listen Here – the Biography of Bill Jardine” – by Chris Van Wyk. If we must forget the past, why only certain pasts? Why do we recognize (as I’ve previously stated) the exploits of apartheid sports stars, and not the exploits of those who fought apartheid?

    It is amazing to see that even the IRB recognizes the apartheid Springbok history – and it was during the period 1920 – 1970 (that’s 50 years) that the Springboks built up their most impressive record against the All Blacks, could it be because the All Blacks were not allowed to pick ‘black’ (Maori) players when playing the Springboks? The rot of racism has eaten so deep into the bones of this country, that we’ve become used to the smell. To charge that the issue is about how many ‘black, colored, indian, white’ players we have in a team, is detracting from the debate regarding our normality as a united, democratic nation.

    We should however, look to history, to see what the past has to tell us – we are driving on roads built by people long gone – why did they choose the routes they chose? Well history can tell us. The rivalry between the All Blacks and the Springboks is beyond rugby, and the reasons for that are manyfold, for example, did you know that in the 1800’s, New Zealand was the first colony to send troops to fight for the ‘Queen’ in the Boer War? Did you know that the 1981 Springbok tour to New Zealand nearly plunged that country into all out civil war? Till today, New Zealanders remain divided about that issue – much like we are on issues of freedom, opportunity and the Springbok.

    In his book ‘The Race Game’, Douglas Booth (University of Otago) alludes to the reaction of a correspondent traveling with the Springboks at one of the early matches of this period, when the ‘all white’ Springboks faced off against a strong Maori team in 1921:

    “I was sickened at the sight of white New Zealanders cheering for Maoris against members of their own race.”

    It was not only the team that felt disgust, but the correspondent as well (Chris Blackett), who wrote:

    “I was sickened at the sight of white New Zealanders cheering for Maoris against members of their own race.”

    Is that the heritage we so honor? I have suggested that the reason for such strong support amongst ‘black’ South Africans was because of Mandela wearing the garb of the oppressor – it was after that moment that he won the 1995 Nobel Peace Prize, alongside former Minister of Sport (and architect of the downfall of SACOS) FW De Klerk. As South Africans we shy away from truth, and focus rather on fantasy – our television and media models reflect this. We want to gather around symbols that divided us (and still do, only the illusion unites – we only are united for 80 minutes at a time), whereas we should be deconstructing our commonalities – we all experienced apartheid. Why can’t we talk about it?

    Support for the All Blacks is not about ‘holding onto the struggle’ the struggle was never abandoned – Marikana is but the tip of an explosive iceberg. Interestingly, two days after Marikana, the Springboks ran onto the field against Argentina (on the same day, a celebration in honor of the ANC’s centenary was being held in Wellington University – it was boycotted by leading anti-apartheid activists) – There was no moment of silence for the Marikana dead. A few weeks later, Peter Mayimane & Corrie Sanders were honored before the Springboks/Australia game. Mayimane was a former technical advisor for the Springboks, and Corrie Sanders was a former heavyweight champion.

    That act alone shows the chasm that exists within our fractured society.

    The fact that Met Uysh states that he does not want to watch the productions I’m working on, places him on par with the authorities governing our systems in this country. Fikile Mbalula does not want to watch it, and neither does many of the ANC structures within the country. It exposes the truth behind the flawed CODESA negotiations – negotiations which resulted in entrenched inequality, and the perception of a united ‘Rainbow’ nation.

    It is because we don’t want to see the other side of life, that this country teeters on the brink of total collapse.

    • Mark, you seem to know your history. Do you know who was incharge of this country in 1921 when those comment where made? Do you know who else were oppressed, could not find work and were seen as not better than coloureds and black (in other words, oppressed).
      One thing i have learnt from history that it is written by the conquerors. When i was a child a learnt of Bloedrivier, Rageltjie de Beer, Wolraad Woltemadus, Paul Kruger, etc. Today it is not part of the school curriculum. But what is history is history and cannot be changed only learnt from. I have Jewish heratige, my grandfather survived WW2 in Berlin. I know of wrong doings and injustice. I dont hate the german people because of what a group did or believed, even today there are still many holding on to that belief. I love Gemany and go there every now and then and see where my grandfather lived. I enjoy the people and i have learnt that they have come to terms with their past, not by covering it up or breaking it down but embrasing it, keeping statues and signs of those terrible things to remind them, and help them move on. Taking away the Springbok emblem wouldnt solve your issues. you’ll feel better of a day.
      Some more history, during WW2 a group of South African solders started a movement for the equality of all solders, regardless of race or religion, they called themselves the Springboks.
      My point is destroying the past and its simbols would not help you overcome your feelings and hate. Like I have said over and over, change starts with you and what you do and say.

      • And how many Boers were oppressed by the English, fought a war to be freed from them, and today the entire country is free? How many of our grandparents, mine included, were murdered, raped and starved in concentration camps? Do we still claim inferiority because of it? No, we rise above it, adapt, survive. And more often than not, we go over as Free South Africans and give them a snot klap on the Rugby and cricket field.

        I may not know how many blacks and colourds, portugese and indians fought alongside the boers to win the country, they may have been involved, I wasn’t there, but the impression I get is that folks like this Marc chap has such entrenched hatred and racisms towards whites that he will never let go of the pre-judice that all whites are racist and that all his ilk are being oppressed.

        If Mark’s excuse is truly the emblem of the Springbok, he is a pitiful and sad individual. But it isn’t. He hates whites and everything whites have done. Whites only built roads in this country because it suited them. Pah! Nothing to do with building a country, building an economy, creating jobs. Nope, just FW and PW who wanted to have tarred roads to their farms like Zuma is getting a R240 m highway to his estate. That’s all reason.

        It is sad really, because as such he will never be free, he is holding himself prisoner of his beliefs. And he is too blind and too arrogant to realise that. After all, whats the use of making an entire documentary to confirm your skewed and biased views if you are ever going to make peace with yourself and those you hate?

    • Marikana had nothing to do with sports. Why should a moment of silent be held for them by any sporting body? How many moments of silence have EVER been held for the thousands of farmers that was murdered? Why must everyone just now cry about Marikana, where the people that was shot by the police was guilty of brutally murdering innocent victims! I have no sympathy for them.

      You make it quite clear that you have no regard for the Springboks and as you state yourself, the Springoks and All Blacks pre-date Apartheid, so why the Springbok is a symbol of apartheid is something that you cling on, not anyone else, not even Madiba who you now label as a betrayor while many whites accepted him as a great person who managed to get this country through democratic change in a peaceful manner.

      Yet, you choose to look only in your own little world and hold on to the wrongs of the past and take it out on the players who represent your country on the field.

      The fact that I would not want to watch your documentary is because it is firstly a one sided argument with no space for debating the issues, and secondly, because of your extremist point of view, where nobody has done any right in your eyes, and that you still believe in a struggle that ended with the abolishment of apartheid and the establishment of a constitution that is regarded worldwide as one of the most liberal. And it seems you are now fighting both the “opressor” who is black and wearing a Springbok badge and labelling them all as betrayors and they all must be wrong, you must be the only one that is right. Even those who fought against apartheid who is recognised year in and year out , who you say is never recgnised, are now wrong because they dare reconcile with whites.

      The fact that you are a racist and hate whites is why you boo and taunt the Springboks. Your documentary is nothing more than an attempt at justifying your racism and its clear that whomsoever disagrees with you are labelled as closing their eyes to the truth, “betrayors” and the likes.

      No use in debating this, cause there is none as blind as you who do not WANT to see.

  8. Would someone please comment on the topic of the blog…

  9. Ag, TC, it seems that your blog has just ripped the scab off a wide open wound in the hearts of SA-AB’s. This too will pass…

    As far as ticket prices go, one can see from the empty stands in S15 that tickets are way too expensive for the average supporter if that means he/she has to watch a decent slice of the annual rugby matches played in the stadium nearby. Just please don’t shout too loud before some idiot get’s it in his head to block broadcasting matches in areas where they are played to force supporters to the stadiums. Old Ali Bacher did that with cricket and it did not work so well…

    • Lachach, spot on. With HD live sport and wide variety on TV sports events need to make their prices more competitive to get the crowds in. You know you have to pay to go to school sport events these days.
      If you get the spectators in, they will spend money at the game. Since writting the blog, yes two days ago, i have spoken to many people regarding the prices of tickets. All said that we budget a certain amount for entertainment. We then subtract the price of tickets and decide based on whats left if it is worth going. The amount to spend doesnt change.

      • What SARU seems to forget, and you point out, is that the people in a stadium create its atmosphere! If they cannot afford to be there, you can just as well raze the stadia. You could put all the razmatazz there, stopping short of bringing in strippers, and you will not fill those tadiums if the price is not right

  10. Had to type fast, what I wanted to say:
    What SARU seems to forget, and you point out, is that the people in a stadium create its atmosphere! If they cannot afford to be there, you can just as well raze the stadium. You could put all the razmatazz there, stopping short of bringing in strippers, and you will not fill those stadiums if the price is not right.

  11. Truly words of truth spoken at the very end there Mr. Met Uysh:

    “No use in debating this, cause there is none as blind as you who do not WANT to see.”

    And to this I’d like to once again apologize the the blogg writer for this off topic spiral, however, in this free and democratic South Africa, this is often the only forum where we can get to speak about these issues – my studies and research are overlooked and ignored here (does not contribute to nation building) but is critically appreciated abroad. Maybe it’s to do with their low crime rates, and high literacy levels.

    Just on a point here regarding hatred for whites – please don’t be confused about my distaste for the shameful history of denial and exclusion of the Springboks, for hatred of white people. I study society – and troll the blogs and web-spaces for issues relating to SA Sports & society, and I speak to many, many people. I fund my own research, although my wife will dispute this claim, and point to her stove-less kitchen!

    When one says that Marikana has nothing to with sport, then one is actually removing sport totally from the society in which it is played. First off; my schooling in non-racism, came through my involvement as a player for a SACOS affiliated rugby team called Universal RFC (est. 1886) in Kimberley. We were taught, despite those who decry the mixing of sport and politics, that “sport cannot exist outside of the society in which it is played”, (a comment attributed to NM Pather) and the sports movement, so magnificently led by SACOS, ensured that in apartheid South Africa, there would be “No Normal Sport In An Abnormal Society”. When international tours did come, specifically rugby – in the time of sport mercenaries, we could not stop the tours, so besides protesting, we did the next best thing – we support ALL Bok rivals.

    It would be wrong to attribute my research & efforts in trying to understand why this near holy fixation with the Springboks is prevalent in a society with the lowest social ranking of ALL the countries in the top 20 (IRB Rankings 2011), with hatred for ‘white’ people, and cheapen it by using minimalist logic.

    When you mention the farm murders, do you think that the many many thousands, if not millions of idle youth, with no social conscience, or moral compass has anything to do with it? In a nutshell, the derailment and outright betrayal of the sports movement, known as SACOS, was the very foundation for the massive social calamities we are now facing. Although fairly small in number, SACOS was extremely powerful in totally isolating apartheid sport, and later the cultural & economic boycotts followed. You cannot have ‘Normal Sport in An Abnormal Society’.

    Mandela will be judged by history, and already, with his failing health, Pinocchio Maharaj is under pressure to calm the nation. No reasoning has ever really gone into the national ‘Psychosis’ regarding the magic of Mandela. When you sit and complain, around your braai fire about what is happening in this country, do you ever consider for one minute the seeds of this discontent sowed by Madiba at CODESA? What is the logic that serves the reasoning behind the notion that a man, who spent 27 years behind bars, being credited with freeing those who fought and died to free HIM??? Do you consider that the massive media campaign (which was largely international) has anything to do with the fact that he (Mandela) is STILL the face of ANC politics?

    Sadly, Two Cents jiggled a nerve in my persona, even though he brought up a valid point i.e. Ticket prices, and here too, we can debate the issue of our so-called Normal Democratic Society – How many poor people can afford those tickets, or are we satisfied with them cleaning up after the game?

    Regarding the Springboks in WWII, I too had family who fought in the war, and they were buried in a ‘non-whites’ cemetery in Kimberley. The soldiers of color were awarded with bicycles, while their less colorful counterparts received much more salubrious rewards.

    My issue with our society, is that 20 years after so-called unity, townships (and township sport), which bore the brunt of apartheid repression, have regressed markedly since then. School sport for the poor has been totally smashed, and this has had far reaching implications for the country as a whole – because sport taught me much more than “dummy and sidestep”, it taught me about social responsibility. It taught me about integrity, honesty, considering social issues and standing up for what is right. It is sad for me to visit Kimberley, and see that my old high school no longer even has a rugby team. And whose fault is that? Before you answer try and read “The Race to Transform South African Sport” by Dr. Ashwin Desai (University of Johannesburg), also “The Race Game – Sport and Politics in South Africa” by Douglas Booth. There is also an interesting article by Desai & Zayn Nabbi called “Truck & Trailer” – it is in the 2007 South African yearbook, and it chronicles the destruction of Jaguars (the only ‘black’ premier league rugby club in Durban) by the Natal Rugby Union.

    I do not consider myself to be in the same league as these aforementioned authors, their research, and literary polemic on the state of affairs, both current and historical, makes for sobering and at times chilling reading – and remember,here we’re talking about sport, a societal and human function that we can all relate to at different levels, were it not for the entrenched apartheid constraints, endorsed by Mandela & his ANC at CODESA.

    I will try to link up with this blogger, and post some links to stuff that I’ve done, as well as sites that may be of interest to him & others. Thanks once again for the responses.

    • Mark, though your research might be relevant and give us an insight as to where we come from, would you not say that as the freedom fighters of the hayday, ANC youth etc, we now have a responsobility for bring change and by sitting on the sideline and shouting in and showing the wrongs we are in fact not helping?
      I think what my fellow bloggers are trying to say is that by supporting the ABs NOW, are you not part of this cause of devision within society? Would you not agree that we cant make changes from the outside but only from the inside? Warren Buffet, one of the most succesful business men of our time, bought shares of a company he liked until he was on the board of directors and then made the changes he thought would bring the best return on investment. Do you catch my drift?
      Then my big question to you, would you have liked a civil war when apartheid ended? Do you not think that that was why NM did not make wholemark changes to the country and especially the sporting bodies?
      When race becomes an issue, have you considered this: as a coloured person, the sad fact is in the old and now the new you are still being discriminated against and change could only bring good things or more than the same (which you already know and deal with on a daily bases), but what if you did not know what would happen after dramatic change occures, as it did in 1994? I think NM could understand this and eased change into this country. The sad fact is that those who followed him did not continue with this systematic measured change. His work is half done and seems to show betrail but infact you are looking at the foundations that have just not been built on.
      Mark, i think you are so swept up in your cause that you miss a lot. You miss read my responses to you and do not reply to my questions. Met Uysh has got under your skin and hopefully openned your eyes to some areas and ideas you have not previously thought of. IT is not a question if Uysh has or not but as a researcher the biggest mistake and often the reason for not excepting a thesis is its bais. A researcher must not have an answer to his research question but have the research answer his question, thereby refering to all view points not just those he feels are relevant. I am interested in what you have to say and that is why i have allowed this depate to continue but i have not seen any change or acceptance of alternative veiw points from you. That in my humble opinion is not that of a researcher. If you do not know who the Springboks were in the Second World War go back to one of my previous blogs regarding the Springbok. Though I always write tongue in cheek there is always a bit of truth in what i write, my only blog that is more fiction that truth is my previous blog about a new rugby tournament.
      Mark, you also have to understand that the sports blogs on sport24 is for light reading and entertainment. It is specifically aimed at sport and needs to stay in that spectrum. Now i am not denyiing that politics and sport are intertwined, this platform is for the enjoyment of sport.
      After all is said and done, you have not answered my question i asked you in my first response to you: Do you not think that change takes time and generations? The father needs to instill national pride in his son, the son will then strive to make the changes and be the changes? How do your children and those you influence feel about this country and the sporting teams?

  12. Met Uysh, hoor hoor! Totally agree with your comments. This really is a sensitive issue and unfortunately always get people hot under the collar. Especially if you’re trying to debate with someone who’s views are completely different from yours. I started commenting the other day but I’m glad I didn’t cause I would’ve also added more fuel to the fire.
    Back to the main topic. I watched a bit of this year’s tournament and it was immediately apparent that the stadium was looking a little empty. Whereas in Dubai and other places the stadium is packed and everyone is dancing and having a big jol. Not nearly the same atmosphere here in SA unfortunately

    • I agree. I want to go to a Hong Kong or Dubai type tournament. Party atmosphere! Its such a nice intro to the summer holidays.

  13. TC, this blog has certainly given me quite a bit of information – thanks for that. I have considered your question/s, and will see how I can get some of my other writings to you. I have been contacted by SARU regarding some of my writings, which have unsettled some people there as well.

    Just quickly though, to understand this train of thought, you have been there (at the receiving end of apartheid) to understand the sense of betrayal. The ‘other’ side as you put it, is actually the side I am trying to represent. The side that is constantly in the media (even Clint Eastwood had a go at the Springboks), Catle TV ads, Top Billing etc. Tells the story of the populist side – or the side that is comfortable.

    I will leave it there for now, but really despite only three or four contributors to this debate, it has given me quite a bit to work with.

    Thanks for that.

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